Corporate Ownership of Children

  Disclaimer: Nothing here is to be construed as "Legal Advice".

  legal advice: involves applying or interpreting the law to your individual problems and recommending the best way for you to handle your case.

 

 

 

What New Testament writer was spanked by his parents?

Old Testament

and
New Testament
Bible verses about
Corporal Punishment
Rayman Nonnatus

Should parents spank their children? (  ) Yes (  ) No

A Controversial Loaded Question

Is there a way to raise a child without either spanking or logical consequences?

The answer is "Yes!" Stay tuned!
 

WARNING! The purpose of this article is to teach what the Bible teaches. Should you spank a child and get the attention of Child Protective Services, well, it's a no win situation. (Deuteronomy 28:32) If you fight them, they will win and you will lose. You may be better off to raise a delinquent rather than lose all your other children to these people.  Now, if you still want to know what the Bible teaches, read on.

Raymond Nonnatus
 

Click on the picture to order.   On page 3 of the book STRATEGIES FOR SAVING YOUR SANITY IN PARENTHOOD by Michael Thomson Ph.D., Dr. Mike says "The frustration that accomplishes raising children has been increasing steadily over the years and has brought many parents to their knees begging for help".

On Page 4 Dr. Mike adds, "It's no wonder that many a parent has told me that the promised joys of parenthood are turning into real nightmares!"

   The conduct of today's children is such a problem that there are prime time TV programs about distressed families and their unruly children. Nanny 911, Supernanny, Oprah, Dr. Phil, etc. Much of present day advice, while sounding good and working with some children, it just does not work with some unruly children. Some older unruly children have even learned how to use the Child Protective Services as weapons against their parents*. (*Her mother scolds her and swats her on the hand. Miley responds to this by telling her mom she’s going to call Child Protective Services.)

Why this article was written? Over the years, the author has dealt with some wonderful but unruly children and teens. He has read and followed the advice of about two dozen books on child rearing, attended three sets of parenting classes provided by different social services and viewed many videos on parenting. All opposed spanking. He has seen un-spanked, unruly children sent to Anger Management Classes which proved to be of little value.

                             Society's choice, spanking or prisons.

   The fruit of the no spanking advice is found in our prison populations. Between 1980 and 2006 violent crimes increased from 173,300 to 667,900. Public Order crimes from 12,400 to 112,300. Click here for statistics. 
 

The  Bible*  is  for spanking and  against  prisons.
Click Here
Our society is against spanking and for prisons.

*Not just the Old Testament, the New Testament also.

   After reading one 'no spanking' book, why read a second 'no spanking' book? Well, because the first book did not work. Likewise the 3rd, 4th, 5th and so on. Why a second set of 'no spanking' parenting classes, then a third? Likewise, because the first and second did not work. All of these books, classes and videos said "don't spank".

   All these experts claimed their Logical Consequences methods of discipline would work with ALL children. Child Protective Services threatens, "If you spank your children, we may take them away even if your State's law allows spanking."

   Upstairs - Downstairs: In one parenting session the unruly children were downstairs in an Anger Management class. Upstairs the parents sat in a circle 'heads in their hands' with a group leader. Finally, one person dared to mentioned the Bible. In protest, the moderator about jumped out of her chair. "I can't allow religion to be discussed!" One unruly child's parent, a church goer, immediately dismissed the Bible comment with, "That's Old Testament anyway". (But it is not Old Testament as you will soon see.)

   In reply one person said, "We have all been dealing with this problem for years. The only reason we are here today is because, thus far, nothing has worked!" While every parent agreed, the Bible comment was not appreciated by the moderator.

"The only reason we are all here is because, thus far, nothing has worked."

JOB SECURITY

   An aging doctor in a small town finally took a vacation. He left his son, who was about to graduate from medical school, in charge of his practice. When the father returned, he asked his son to give him an update of his patients.

   "I cured Mrs. Stephenson of that indigestion that she has been suffering from for the past thirty years," the son remarked proudly.

   "Oh, no, " the father exclaimed, "that indigestion has put you through high school, college, and paid for my vacation!"

   Job Security: All the learned authors and teachers of 'don't spank', have job security as long as we follow their non-Bible advice. Lack of parental spanking is also job security for the police, juvenile courts, social workers, and prison guards.  (2,304,115 prisoners were held in federal or state prisons or in local jails in 2009) Spanking the wrong way or for the wrong reasons, at wrong times, or at the wrong age, is also job security for the Children's Protective Services whose job it is to 'protect' children from their frustrated parents.

   What is needed is simply a book that teaches (1) when to use Logical Consequences and (2) when, why and how to properly spank an unruly child. In States such as Ohio it is NOT illegal to spank a child. (See a list of books and links at the end of this article.) Beware: Child Protective Services in Ohio, and other states, will disagree and impose their very own 'at whim' law over State law.

   There are many current serious national problems whose solutions are found only in the Bible. While any number of solutions are offered for any particular problem, the only solution rejected, often forbidden, is the solution found in your Bible.

  • National debt and money problems, 1, 2, 3, 4

  • Job loss, downsizing etc. 5

  • Ever increasing health care costs, 6, 7, 8, 9

   The three above problems, and many others, fall into the classification, "Yes it's common knowledge that the Old Testament says such and so, but Jesus changed all that".

   Discussions and legislation offering various solutions for any of the above national problems is welcome, just as long as the Bible solution is not mentioned. In some places, anyone even daring to bring up a Bible connection will be shouted down and not allowed to be heard. (As in the upstairs room at the anger management class mentioned above.) The first problem listed above, the money problem, is solvable if Congress would simply apply just one Bible law.

 It is a religious argument since there is a Bible solution

   The spanking of unruly children is one of these subjects. It is a religious argument since there is a Bible solution. Concerning spanking, below you will find:

  • What both the Old and New Testaments say about spanking. (Including some points that have gone unnoticed by almost everyone on both sides.)

  • What religious people say in opposition to spanking. It's the "but Jesus changed all that" part of the discussion. For example, Theology Today Magazine.

  • What anti-religious groups say in opposition to spanking. For example: ReligiousTolerance.org, Human Rights Watch and the American Civil Liberties Union.

   These are most of the Bible's Old Testament verses commonly used to support spanking children.

  • Proverbs 10:13.  In the lips of him that hath understanding wisdom is found: but a rod is for the back of him that is void of understanding.
    Proverbs 26:3.
      A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fool's back.

  • Proverbs 13:24.  He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

  • Proverbs 22 15.  Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

  • Proverbs 23:13.  Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. 14.  Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

  • Proverbs 29:15.  The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.

  • Proverbs 19:18.  Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying.

The verses below counsel parents "Don't spank when angry."

  • Psalms 6:1.  O LORD, rebuke me not in thine anger, neither chasten me in thy hot displeasure.

  • Psalms 38 :1.  O LORD, rebuke me not in thy wrath: neither chasten me in thy hot displeasure.

The first objection to spanking is often a rebuke:
"Well that's Old Testament"

"Yes it's common knowledge that the Old Testament says such and so,
but Jesus changed all that".

   Modern day 'New Testament' Christians will frequently immediately dismiss any reference to an Old Testament verse that contradicts their present conduct or beliefs with "Well that's Old Testament". When it comes to the conduct of 'religious' people, they seldom let the Bible stand in their way. However, most of their New Testaments do contain a very small part of the Old Testament, namely Psalms and Proverbs, which are quoted above.

   The rebuke "Well that's Old Testament" is based upon a primary belief of New Testament Christians which is, "The Law is done away in Jesus." To research for yourself click here. 10 , 11

 A NEW TESTAMENT AUTHOR
WAS SPANKED BY PARENTS!
 

  Concerning child rearing, here is an overlooked example of the New Testament explaining the Old Testament.

Hebrews12:5. And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6. For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8. But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9. Furthermore WE have had fathers of our flesh which corrected US, and WE gave them reverence: shall WE not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Hebrews 12:5-6 quotes Proverbs 3:11

Proverbs 3:11. My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction: 12. For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Exodus 20:12, Deuteronomy 5:16 and  Ephesians 6:1-3 were also quoted here in Hebrews. The last words; "and live" are part of the 5th Commandment which is called the commandment with promise. Most only hear the first six words. "Honor thy father and thy mother", but there is more to the command.

Exodus 20:12 Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. (and live)

Deuteronomy 5:16.  Honor thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, (and live) and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

No, the Law of God wasn't 'done away in Jesus'. All of the Ten Commandments are in both the Old and New Testaments. 12  

Ephesians 6:1-3 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise;) That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

Think about what you just read. Note the 'we' in Hebrews 12:5 were New Testament parents who spanked their 'New Testament' children. These 'spanked' children reverenced their parents unlike modern day unspanked unruly children who make their parents lives miserable. Think! the author of the New Testament's Book of Hebrews, and the people in the audience were all spanked by their parents.

Question:   Someone might ask, "Didn't these Apostles understand that Jesus died on the cross to keep unruly children from being spanked?"

Answer:  The Book of Hebrews was written about 50 years after Jesus 'nailed the law to the cross'. 80-90 AD. So ether the Disciples misunderstood Jesus or 'spanking' was not 'done away with the law' as many teach. Hebrews 12 also supports The Ten Commandments by favorably mentioning one of them - "Honor your father and mother". ("We gave them reverence" and "and live".

The discrediting of King Solomon
and spanking
 because of his son's conduct

www.religioustolerance.org/spankin8.htm

The Religious Tolerance.org web site about spanking says this:
 

The results of corporal punishment, as described in the Bible:
(From ReligiousTolerance.Org)

   As mentioned above, from a conservative Protestant point of view, it is probable that these passages in Proverbs describe Solomon's own parenting style when he raised his son Rehoboam. The Bible subsequently records the negative effect that this parenting style had on his son. Rehoboam became a widely hated ruler after his father's death. At one point, he had to make a hasty retreat to Jerusalem to avoid being assassinated by his own people:

1 Kings 12:13-14: "And the king [Rehoboam] answered the people roughly, and forsook the counsel of the old men which they had given him, and spake to them after the counsel of the young men, saying, My father made your yoke heavy, but I will add to your yoke: my father chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions." (ASV)

1 Kings 12:18:  "Then king Rehoboam sent Adoram, who was over the men subject to taskwork; and all Israel stoned him to death with stones. And king Rehoboam made speed to get him up to his chariot, to flee to Jerusalem." (ASV)

Taxes not Spanking

The above from ReligiousTolerance.Org is either a grave misunderstanding or deliberate deception. These learned theologians do not seem to understand that Rehobaom was talking about taxes NOT spanking.  Rehoboam raised taxes resulting in a taxpayer's rebellion. The above quoted verse was from the Authorized Standard Version (ASV) of the Bible. Here is the King James translation of the very same verse:

1 Kings 12:18. Then king Rehoboam sent Adoram, who was over the tribute; and all Israel stoned him with stones, that he died. Therefore king Rehoboam made speed to get him up to his chariot, to flee to Jerusalem. (19) So Israel rebelled against the house of David unto this day

Ahoram was the king's tax collector!

Barking Up The Wrong Tree

   These verses in the Bible's Books of Kings and Chronicles have nothing to do with child rearing or Solomon spanking Rehoboan when a child. Rehoboam accepted foolish advice and unwisely said, "You think my father's taxes were high, wait until you get a load of my new tax rates".

   These Old Testament tax protesters did not just dump taxed tea in the water as did the tax protesters in Colonial America. They killed the tax collector!

   The separation of the United States from England under King George was a taxpayers' rebellion just as Judah's separation from Israel under King Rehoboam. And the American Revolution did not take place because King George was spanked by his father.

   For details of this taxpayers' rebellion see The History of the Governments of Israel and Judah.

  Have you been stung?

Now concerning "but I will chastise you with scorpions" mentioned above.

   In Strong's Concordance the Old Testament the Hebrew words translated usury are 5378, 5383, 5391, and 5392. One of these definitions is of special "interest": #5391...to strike with a sting (as a serpent); fig, to oppress with interest on a loan:-bite, lend upon usury.

   When Rehoboam said, "I will chastise you with scorpions", he was saying, in modern day language, "I am going to raise taxes. And if you don't pay on time, I'll add penalties and interest". (a sting)

Blaming The Parents
(A form of 'blame the victim'.)

   In effect these learned theologians use the above verses in 1 Kings to blame any child's future criminal conduct on the parent's earlier spanking (which they like to call beating).

   When using Bible verses to support their side of the argument the cry, "Well that's Old Testament" is never heard.

   These Bible 'students' also have tunnel vision. For example, when arguing against Capital Punishment they are quick to quote Exodus 20:13 (Thou shalt not kill.).

   In many Bibles, just four inches away, on the same page, anyone can read Exodus 21:12-13 (He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.)

   Capital Punishment is mentioned here because many like minded theologians also argue against the Bible's teaching on capital punishment. But, being hypocrites, they make an exception when it comes to spanking. They teach Jesus said spanking is a capital crime and that parents who spank should be killed!

Spanking Hurts Everybody
Theology Today - January 1980 Vol. 37, No. 4

   Concerning Deuteronomy 21:18 when criticizing the Old Testament and the God they claim to represent, Theology Today has this to say.

   Nevertheless, if a parent is pursuing the Old Testament in order to find literary support for the practice of corporal punishment, there is ample documentation there for correlating the "rod of discipline" with current child rearing practices. If even greater support is needed, one has only to consider the Law and its instructions for a father of an incorrigible son who had violated the Fifth Commandment:

   If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son, who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they chastise him, will not give heed to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, "This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard." Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall purge the evil from your midst; and all Israel shall hear, and fear (Deut. 21:18-21; see also, Ps. 137:9).

   "Jesus of Nazareth, identified as "the rod of Jesse" (Isa. 11: 1), the same root word, meaning a branch from a family tree, was similarly accused of being a drunkard and a glutton. Moreover, his relationship with his parents was also problematic. He didn't live up to familial and social expectations, but what he said and did pertaining to children remains worthy of our consideration and commitment. His teaching was in diametric opposition to the corporal punishment position of Proverbs, Deuteronomy, and his contemporaries. The revolutionary social order Jesus initiated belonged to children. The future will be fulfilled by the children to whom the Kingdom of God has been promised. "Let the children come to me," he taught, "and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the Kingdom of God" (Luke 18:16). This radical reversal in Jesus' teaching remains as enigmatic today as it did centuries ago. Not only did he give children status as human beings, they were to be treated as human beings:

(Luke 18:17). Whoever does not receive the Kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it
(Matt. 18:4). Whoever humbles himself like a child … is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven
(Matt. 18:5). Whoever receives a child [because of Jesus' commendation to children] receives [Jesus]

On the other hand:

   (Matt. 18:6) Whoever causes [a child to suffer or stumble or sin] it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

   The latter, in particular, is pretty drastic treatment for those who are derelict in their responsibilities toward children. What did Jesus mean in making these and other references to children? It would appear, without being inordinately presumptuous:........

  In the first paragraph of the Theology Today article above you found that the Old Testament supports corporal punishment. Later in the article you were told that Jesus Christ was a juvenile delinquent who taught the exact opposite. Please reread the above with your thinking cap on.

These Theology Today experts said:

1. Jesus was a juvenile delinquent. (In other religions insulting the founder is not allowed.)

"(Jesus) was similarly accused of being a drunkard and a glutton. Moreover, his relationship with his parents was also problematic. He didn't live up to familial and social expectations".

2. Jesus disagreed with Moses and the Scriptures. (Now they tell you the Old Testament, that Jesus said was 'the truth' is in error.)

"His teaching was in diametric opposition to the corporal punishment position of Proverbs, Deuteronomy, and his contemporaries."

3. "Modern day Theologians make the Bible enigmatic." NO KIDDING!! A joke to illustrate the point:

     Jesus ask, "Do you understandist what I sayeth?"

     Apostle: "Yes Lord, until I read the footnotes in my Study Bible."

Theology Today goes on to say, "This radical reversal (of the Old Testament) in Jesus' teaching remains as enigmatic today as it did centuries ago."

A little child can understand the plain teaching of Jesus far better than a learned Theologian, who after spending time in a seminary, can't seem to add 2 and 2 to get 4.

4. These Theologians wrongly equate Matthew 18:6 with spanking when it has more to do with pedophiles. These blind leaders of the blind would have parents who spank drowned in the depths of the sea. That is what they said:

"On the other hand: (Matt. 18:6).

Whoever causes [a child to suffer or stumble or sin] it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

The latter, in particular, is pretty drastic treatment for those who are derelict in their responsibilities toward children."

   By "derelict in their responsibilities toward children", these learned theologians mean 'spanking' a child is a dereliction of parental duties. In fact they think it is a capital crime since the punishment is to be 'drowned in the depths of the sea'.

Matthew 18:6, which is misquoted above actually says nothing about spanking. Four different versions of your Bible are below.

(1)   "But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." (KJV)

(2)   "but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea." (NAS)

(3)   "But whoso shall cause one of these little ones that believe on me to stumble, it is profitable for him that a great millstone should be hanged about his neck, and [that] he should be sunk in the depth of the sea." (NSV)

(4)   "and whoever may cause to stumble one of those little ones who are believing in me, it is better for him that a weighty millstone may be hanged upon his neck, and he may be sunk in the depth of the sea." (YLT)

The Modern Day Application of Old Testament Advice
From This Very Same Old Testament Bible Verse.

Deuteronomy 21:18. If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19. Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20. And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

   One person sat in a cluster meeting at a Children's Services Board concerning a very unruly teenage girl who was NOT spanked by her parents. The parents, various doctors and social workers were at their collective wits end trying to reform this child by doing everything but spanking, and nothing has worked.

   So what was their final advice? "The next time she kicked a hole in the wall or otherwise damaged property; sneaks out of the home at night; uses violence against her parents or siblings; you parents go to the police or Juvenile Court and press unruly child charges and then let the Court deal with the child". This is exactly the advice given in the Bible for parents who are also at their wits end.

   Common sense should tell you, the reader, that this verse is not a death sentence for the child. The Court will set a punishment to fit the crime. i.e. community service, detention or whatever. Only in the most extreme cases would a Court call for the death penalty. And Courts have done this when a child under eighteen has committed murder. The Court simply tried the offender as an adult and imposed an adult penalty.

Everyone misses this point!

   Finally, please note, something they all overlook! Deuteronomy 21:18 said "If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:"

   This verse says going to Court is a parent's last resort. But notice! Parental chastisement (spanking) comes long before going to Court. ("when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:") The child above might even say, "Your Honor, my being here is not my fault. My parents did not spank me."

   The Judge might then ask the parents, "Have you spanked this child?" If the answer is "No" the Judge might say, "Case dismissed. You parents take this child back home and spank him when he is unruly. If that does not work then bring him back."

The Redefinition Game

   Opponents to the Bible's teaching always define spanking or paddling as harmfully and angrily hitting, whipping, whacking, flogging, beating, striking, slapping, swatting and even "derelict in their responsibilities toward children" but never as an attention getting light sting applied to the seat of learning with the board of education.

Schools in 21 states can use corporal punishment.
Aug 8, 2008

(CNN) -- More than 200,000 children were spanked or paddled in U.S. schools during the past school year, human rights groups reported Wednesday.

"Every public school needs effective methods of discipline, but beating kids teaches violence, and it doesn't stop bad behavior," wrote Alice Farmer, the author of a joint report from Human Rights Watch and the American Civil Liberties Union. "Corporal punishment discourages learning, fails to deter future misbehavior and at times even provokes it."

Corporal punishment in schools remains legal in 21 U.S. states and is used frequently in 13: Missouri, Kentucky, Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennessee and Florida, according to data received from the Office for Civil Rights at the U.S. Department of Education and cited in the report.

The highest percentage of students receiving corporal punishment was in Mississippi, with 7.5 percent of students. The highest number was in Texas, with 48,197 students.

"When you talk to local school officials, they point to the fact that it's quick and it's effective -- and that's true," Farmer said. "It doesn't take much time to administer corporal punishment, and you don't have to hire someone to run a detention or an after-school program."

   Notice that spanked or paddled in the first paragraph was turned into beating in the second paragraph. How would most parents answer the following questions.

( ) Yes. ( ) No. Do you believe unruly students should be spanked or paddled?
( ) Yes. ( ) No. Do you believe unruly students should be beaten?
.

Most people would say "Yes" to 1 and "No" to 2.

   Notice Farmer's three part "spanking is beating" statement above, "(1) Every public school needs effective methods of discipline, (2) but beating kids teaches violence, (3) and it doesn't stop bad behavior,"

   Since part 1 is obviously true you are therefore inclined to accept parts 2 and 3 as likewise true.

(1) "Every public school needs effective methods of discipline." That is obviously very true.

(2) "but beating kids teaches violence" This part is deceptive because schools do not beat children. And since unruly students are not beaten, violence is not taught.

(3) "and it doesn't stop bad behavior." First, what is 'it'? spanking or beating? Concerning stopping bad behavior, school officials disagree with Human Rights Watch and the American Civil Liberties Union. School teachers, from years of experience, say spanking, "it's quick and it's effective". Quick and effective at what? At stopping bad behavior!

So who are you going to believe? A or B?

A. (  ) The people who are not school teachers and use deception including calling spanking beating
          and "pacing hypnotic language".  (Look it up on Google.)

B. (  ) The local school officials who say spanking "it's quick and it's effective."
          at stopping bad behavior.

Logical Consequences: Alternatives to Punishment

   The above is the title of Chapter 6 in the book Perfect Parenting and other Myths by Frank Martin, Ed.D. The chapter begins with this remark:
 

Discipline is education: punishment is pain inflicted for crimes. Parents have been confusing these two for decades. F.M.

   In fairness to the author, Frank Martin, lest the reader misunderstand, his book is not about spanking, in fact the word spanking is not even found in the book's INDEX.

The loaded question: To spank, or not to spank, the loaded question clarified.  The "YES" answer is just as wrong as the politically correct and socially accepted 'NO" answer. Consider the following;

   Why would a school teacher have a student spanked?

   (   ) A. Did not do homework.

   (   ) B. Late for class.

   (   ) C. Hitting, kicking or otherwise being a danger to himself and others.

   (   ) D. Stealing or destruction of the school or another's property.

  Spanking is not the answer to "A", "B" and perhaps even not D. In those cases the school applies Logical Consequences. One logical Biblical consequence for theft or destruction is restitution. Exodus 22 Click here for an illustration.

   Schools that can spank, spank when the answer is "C" or "D". If a school is not allowed to use corporal punishment, then the only alternative is (1) to suspend or expel the student and call the parents or (2) call the police.

   As a parent, which would you chose?

   (   ) A spanking and a few days suspension or

   (   ) A call about your child being held at the local police station to be followed up with an          appearance in Juvenile Court? (And and Child 'Protection' Services beating on your door?)

   (   ) In the case of "D" above the Bible would call for restitution. Spanking would only follow a refusal to make restitution.

Discipline At Home
Spanking or Logical Consequences

   At home a teenage child strikes or otherwise attacks the mother. The parents can spank the child or call the police. Should parents spank this child? (  ) Yes. (  ) No.

( X) NO. Those who do not believe in spanking have no choice. The police are called to deal with the unruly child. They charge the child with a felony crime. The child then spends the night in jail followed by an appearance before a judge who decides the child's fate. (Child Protective Services might take this as an opportunity to get involved and take ALL your children away. 

(X) YES. The punishment (a spanking) is pain inflicted for a crime. The father can (calmly) spank the child settling the matter in house. The police and courts are not involved. The child does not spend a night in jail or get a criminal record. (In fact, the logical consequence of committing a crime is punishment.)

What Would Jesus Do?

Mark 10:3.  And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?

John 7:19.  Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law?

Matthew 5:25 (Applied to children) Agree with thine adversary quickly, (your parents) while thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary (call the police) deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26.  Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Deuteronomy 21:18.  If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, (a spanking) will not hearken unto them: 19.  Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20.  And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

   Jesus would advise, use Logical Consequences, but if you have a child discipline problem involving a crime such as hurting others, theft or destruction of property, "chastise" to keep it in house and out of court. (See Matthew 1:18-19 for an example.)
 

Discipline is education: punishment is pain inflicted for crimes. Parents have been confusing these two for decades. F.M.

Should parents spank their children? (  ) Yes. (  ) No.

The answer is not YES or NO. The answer is "That depends."

"YES" if the child commits a crime.

"NO" if the situation can be dealt with using Logical Consequences.

A final word:

Proverbs 22:6. Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Proverbs 22:15. Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

In Strong's Concordance the Hebrew word 'foolishness' is #200. In the Hebrew dictionary. #200 comes from #191. Look at it's pronunciation.  eviyl    ev-eel.  Oh how about , in plain English - evil?
 

191 'eviyl ev-eel' from an unused root (meaning to be perverse); (figuratively) silly:--fool(-ish) (man).

196 'eviliy ev-ee-lee' from 191; silly, foolish; hence (morally) impious:--foolish.


200 'ivveleth iv-veh'-leth from the same as 191; silliness:--folly, foolishly(-ness).

  This is the title of a book about evil people in our midst. WITHOUT CONSCIOUS - The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us by Robert D. Hare PhD

The last chapter is titled Can Anything be Done? starting at the bottom of page 193.
 

"At this writing, in early 1993, the situation with regard to treatment remains essentially the same as it is always been.

   Indeed, many writers on the subject have commented that the shortest chapter in any book on psychopathy he should be the one on treatment.  A one-sentence conclusion such as, " no effective treatment has been found," or, "nothing works," is the common wrap up the scholarly reviews of the literature.

   However, with their social institutions threatened by soaring crime rates and our legal, mental health, and criminal justice systems overburdened to the point of paralysis, it is essential that we continue the quest for methods to reduce the enormous impact of psychopaths have on society.

In the quest we need look no farther than our Bible.

Proverbs 22:15. Foolishness (evil,  psychopathy and sociopathy) is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Proverbs 19:18.  Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying.

Proverbs 23:13.  Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.     (In prison on death row? Or in a gang fight? Or from an overdose of drugs?)

Proverbs 23:14.  Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

   Like many of our national problems, the only solution is in the Bible. Whether it be about money, diet or child rearing, the Bible's solution is often forbidden. And sometimes made illegal.

   Heed the warning at the start of this article because spanking is being made illegal by foolish social workers.

* Loaded question defined. and Loaded question web sites.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/loadques.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_many_questions

Pacing hypnotic language. Found in the schools news article above Schools in 21 states can use corporal punishment. "Every public school needs effective methods of discipline, but beating kids teaches violence, and it doesn't stop bad behavior," A Google search on "pacing hypnotic language" is suggested.

For more information about spanking and parenting.

NEWS

Texas city revives paddling as it takes a swat at misbehavior

By Michael Birnbaum
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, April 16, 2010


TEMPLE, TEX. -- In an era when students talk back to teachers, skip class and wear ever-more-risque clothing to school, one central Texas city has hit upon a deceptively simple solution: Bring back the paddle.  (Click here for more)

 

FINALLY

At the very beginning of this Bible Study the question presented was,

 "Is there a way to raise a child without either spanking or logical consequences?"

YES!

You can find the book, and those below, at your favorite book store or Public Library

 

Click here to order.

Raising the Perfect Child Through Guilt and Manipulation - by Elizabeth Beckwith

Contents: Creating a team: "us vs. them" -- Sweep it under the rug -- How to scare the crap out of your child (in a positive way) -- Don't worry about the mean kid's feelings, make your kid feel better -- Don't be afraid to raise a nerd -- Mind control: why it's a good thing -- Disciplining with meaning vs. meaningless discipline -- All for one and one for all -- Spousal indoctrination and other related things -- Guilt is a two-way street -- Grandma Guido and the evolution of guilt and manipulation.

Insight on your child's behavior can be found by clicking here.

More good 'non-spanking' books.

Click on the picture to order.Strategies for Saving Your Sanity in Parenthood
 
by
Dr. Mike Thomson

Click on picture.Discipline Without Distress: 135 tools for raising caring, responsible children without time-out, spanking, punishment or bribery" by Judy Arnall
 
The Parent Traps (The Parenting Solution )  3cd's and a booklet  by Dr. James Jones

   The Parent Trap is volume 2 of a three volume set. It is extremely good information having to do with unruly children and why they are that way. Volume 1 is Parenting 101. Volume 3 is Healthy Family Solutions. This information is a must for parents with unruly children.

   Unruly children play a game "you don't control me and I'll prove it." "Force me to study and I will fix you with a straight F report card. Force me to go to school and I will be expelled before lunch, ha ha." Dr. Jones shows the solution. (Without spanking.)

BOOKS, WEB SITES, and LAW SCHOOLS

Internet List: If some items become no longer available you might find them at the Internet Archive: http://www.archive.org/web/web.php

What GOOD Parents must know about Child Protective Services.

BOOKS

Strategies For Saving Your Sanity In Parenthood by Michael M. Thomson

Discipline Without Distress: 135 tools for raising caring, responsible children without time-out, spanking, punishment or bribery by Judy Arnell

Successful Christian Parenting: Nurturing with Insight and Disciplining in Love

Spanking: How (and How Not) to Spank - Bible-Based Guidelines for Christian Parents and Others

The Deadly Consequences of "Expert" Advice on Childrearing

No Fear - A Police Officer's Perspective - Kids with no fear - Parents with no control - Violence with no end by Robert R Surgenor. (A book by a police officer about spanking children.)

Divorce Poison - Dr. Richard Warshak (Parental Alienation Syndrome)

Dumbing Us Down by John Taylor (Public Schools)

Elusive Innocence - Survival Guide for the Falsely Accused by Dean Tong (False child abuse charges)

Jeopardy in the Court Room; A Scientific Analysis of Children's Testimony by Stephen J Ceci

WITHOUT CONSCIOUS - The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us by Robert D. Hare PhD

The Wildest Colts make the Best Horses by J. Breeding PhD (A book about ADD children.)

LAW SCHOOLS

Jurisdictionary (A very good and economical do-it-yourself Law Course )

www.TrialTheater.com  (How to conduct yourself during trial in the court room.)

George Gordon School of Law http://library.georgegordon.com/

Home School Legal Defense Association

PRAYER

Imprecatory prayer

Be warned. Child Protective Services in Ohio, as in other states, do not obey the law as written below. "We have a tendency to broaden what we consider abuse or neglect beyond the statutory definitions." And they control Juvenile Court.

OHIO LAW ORC 2919.22 Endangering children. (ORC means Ohio Revised Code)

(A) No person, who is the parent, guardian, custodian, person having custody or control, or person in loco parentis of a child under eighteen years of age or a mentally or physically handicapped child under twenty-one years of age, shall create a substantial risk to the health or safety of the child, by violating a duty of care, protection, or support. It is not a violation of a duty of care, protection, or support under this division when the parent, guardian, custodian, or person having custody or control of a child treats the physical or mental illness or defect of the child by spiritual means through prayer alone, in accordance with the tenets of a recognized religious body.

(B) No person shall do any of the following to a child under eighteen years of age or a mentally or physically handicapped child under twenty-one years of age:

(1) Abuse the child;

(2) Torture or cruelly abuse the child;

(3) Administer corporal punishment or other physical disciplinary measure, or physically restrain the child in a cruel manner or for a prolonged period, which punishment, discipline, or restraint is excessive under the circumstances and creates a substantial risk of serious physical harm to the child;

Comment: Note that (3) does not say you can not discipline or restrain. The discipline or restraint can not be cruel or prolonged under the circumstances and must not risk physical (or mental) harm. Click here for details.

2151.031 Abused child defined.

As used in this chapter, an “abused child” includes any child who:

(A) Is the victim of “sexual activity” as defined under Chapter 2907. of the Revised Code, where such activity would constitute an offense under that chapter, except that the court need not find that any person has been convicted of the offense in order to find that the child is an abused child;

(B) Is endangered as defined in section 2919.22 of the Revised Code, except that the court need not find that any person has been convicted under that section in order to find that the child is an abused child;

(C) Exhibits evidence of any physical or mental injury or death, inflicted other than by accidental means, or an injury or death which is at variance with the history given of it. Except as provided in division (D) of this section, a child exhibiting evidence of corporal punishment or other physical disciplinary measure by a parent, guardian, custodian, person having custody or control, or person in loco parentis of a child is not an abused child under this division if the measure is not prohibited under section 2919.22 of the Revised Code. (Note: 2919.22 was quoted above.)

(D) Because of the acts of his parents, guardian, or custodian, suffers physical or mental injury that harms or threatens to harm the child’s health or welfare.

 SATIRE about spanking

* Loaded Question Defined

* Loaded Question

A police officer explains the difference between Child Abuse and Discipline.

Kidjacked
17 Helpful Hints

The Monkey Trap

A document saying what was suspected.

"We have a tendency to broaden what we consider abuse or neglect beyond the statutory definitions."

Disclaimer: This is a Bible Study. Nothing here is to be construed as "Legal Advice".

legal advice
involves applying or interpreting the law to your individual problems and recommending the best way for you to handle your case.

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